The recent report in the Scunthorpe Telegraph that the teachers may hold a national strike next month in a row over pension changes is, to my thinking, completely outrageous and not acceptable from such a, so called, sophisticated body.

If ever there were a clear example of vested interests and lack of consideration for the much lower paid workers and at a time when the UK as a whole is at the near point of financial bankruptcy, this is it. It is difficult to imagine a worse scenario.

No one can possibly deny that the teachers have a difficult and impossible job trying to educate people in the failing culture that exists in the UK today. It is certainly not a job that I could or wish to do, but the wholesale disruption of schools, is to my mind, not the way to solve the problem as they see it. It is punishing their own society.

The National Union Of Teachers (NUT) consider proposed pension changes would see teachers paying more pension contributions, working longer and receiving less when they retire. Why not? when it is well known that their profession is paid, generally, well above the industrial average wage rate. In addition, because the UK has generally been paying itself more than it could afford that changes, especially to pensions, have to be made.

I would respectfully suggest that this is a clear instance that the culture of paying pensions in any job should be discontinued completely. Payment for any job should be decided by market forces and workers should make their own pension
arrangements and not be a political issue of this nature.

The current financial and lack of jobs issue is so dire and the UK is having to borrow millions of pounds sterling on a daily basis to pay our debts. Surely the teachers can see and accept the need for financial change like other workers are having to do (if they can find a job) and not attempt to blackmail other people into submission for their own vested interests.

As regarding teachers' pensions and their affect on the present financial situation - there will be very little impact on the present economy...it relates to the vast majority of teachers who will retire from 2 or 3 years time to the present and future young teacher who will retire in 40+ years time - 2050 and beyond.
Comparing like with like, Teachers are one of the lowest paid professionals.
It's an all graduate profession - 3 years degree study + 1 year post-graduate course, so the youngest age to be come a teacher in a state school is 22...with a starting salary around £23k. This maybe above the 'Industrial' average wage, but it is lower and remains lower than other professionals (nursing accepted).
Apart from re-paying student loans, the Government proposals expect teacher to pay nearly 10 percent (?9.7 percent) into a pension scheme - (about £275 pm of deductions before tax and NI) ... would qualify for a full pension after 40 years service (62 years at the very earliest), and which will be 15 percent lower than the present pension scheme.
It has the biggest drop-out rate of professional groups with 25 - 33 percent leaving the profession within the first few years.
Independent studies indicate the profession is one of the most stressful.
Independent studies have also indicated that teacher work on average 60 hours a week . (this equates to £7 ph)
It must also be remembered that the teaching profession had re-negotiated a new pension scheme with the government only a few years ago.
Compared with police.....18 year entrance....general education qualifications..starting salary circa £21k ....circa £24/25k at age of 22 (Teachers' starting age)...receive over-time pay...A sergeant receives more salary than a senior teacher ...can retire on full pension after about 25 years service (age around 43...not too old to start another job)
Compared with HGV Class 1 driver - minimum age 21 - min ph pay £8.50 x 60 x 52 = £26500 pa (with £100 tax free per night away from home).
The Industrial Average Pay also includes those on minimum wage, so its not so surprising to find 4-year trained graduates being above the Industrial average.
Can I ask galashiels how else can teachers express their disapproval at government plans which does not involve striking?
Can I also enquire what his definition is of a 'failing culture' since he has used the expression before?

Phred Phillips and Snoter pose many questions in making comment to my remarks on the proposed teachers' strike voting which I will attempt to reply.

In an attempt to sort out this pension problem, all workers should be self employed and if they wish to have a pension then they should make their own arrangements and not rely on the employer. I consider it is not the employer's job to sort out a person's personal responsibilities like pensions, national insurance payments and income tax. If worker wishes to make provision for their future that is their decision and likewise a person's responsibilities to the state like tax and NI is not an employer's responsibility.

An employer's main function is to start up companies to provide jobs and employment within a governmental cultural responsibility of encouraging entrepreneurs and business people.

I consider that MAN, to have his proper dignity, one of the main functions is that they pursue a culture of encouragement to entrepreneurs to start businesses to provide jobs and employment for all types of workers.

Snotor considers all types of problems here with the teachers, one being that it is difficult to establish what the market rate for a teacher should be as they are employed by the state, Exactly Snotor, that is why it is essential that the rate of payment for teachers or any other type of job is decided by the demand for the product or service allied to the number of workers applying for the job.

Like any product or service if there is a big demand and the supply is short then the price or rate goes up accordingly. If you are selling your house and there is a shortage of housing and people are queuing up to purchase houses then the price goes up. This is a natural principle of supply and demand and is what exists generally in the UK and wider world.

It is a rough and ready principle but as a rule generally works, warts and all, and it is the only system we have at present that works. If someone comes up with a better system that works it could be interesting, until then we are stuck with supply and demand until further notice.

Phred Phillips asks the question, "How can teachers express their disapproval at government which does not involve striking". That for me is an easy one which you are not going to like or agree, just move on to their next job.

It will not solve any thing in the immediate future, because the whole scenario of jobs, wages and pensions especially in the public sector is, in my considered opinion, completely illogical and out of control and has got to be changed fundamentally.

Phred Phillips asks what I mean by the UK as a corporate body being in a, "failing culture", which I find a sad question.

Situations of even the teachers, a sophistic and educated group proposing to strike with all the punishment of their own people to get back at the government for their own vested interests and financial betterment. To me is just another indication of a failing culture in the UK.

This along with some able bodied young people and others shying away from work and having drug and alcohol dependency problems. Soap operas and the like dominating some people's lives is indicative of a failing culture that I personally find difficult to appreciate.

Until we as a corporate nation are prepared to accept that until we stop generally having a public sector and wage and pension fiasco which is indicative of the teaching industry and change over to the private sector then these problems will continue.

If blame can be apportioned for this problem then people like myself and of my generation who generally over the years could see what was happening and tried to alter the course, but unfortunately I personally did not try hard enough and the UK failure is clear to see.
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Phred Phillips and Snoter pose many questions in making comment to my remarks on the proposed teachers' strike voting which I will attempt to reply.

In an attempt to sort out this pension problem, all workers should be self employed and if they wish to have a pension then they should make their own arrangements and not rely on the employer. I consider it is not the employer's job to sort out a person's personal responsibilities like pensions, national insurance payments and income tax. If worker wishes to make provision for their future that is their decision and likewise a person's responsibilities to the state like tax and NI is not an employer's responsibility.

An employer's main function is to start up companies to provide jobs and employment within a governmental cultural responsibility of encouraging entrepreneurs and business people.

I consider that MAN, to have his proper dignity, one of the main functions is that they pursue a culture of encouragement to entrepreneurs to start businesses to provide jobs and employment for all types of workers.

Snotor considers all types of problems here with the teachers, one being that it is difficult to establish what the market rate for a teacher should be as they are employed by the state, Exactly Snotor, that is why it is essential that the rate of payment for teachers or any other type of job is decided by the demand for the product or service allied to the number of workers applying for the job.

Like any product or service if there is a big demand and the supply is short then the price or rate goes up accordingly. If you are selling your house and there is a shortage of housing and people are queuing up to purchase houses then the price goes up. This is a natural principle of supply and demand and is what exists generally in the UK and wider world.

It is a rough and ready principle but as a rule generally works, warts and all, and it is the only system we have at present that works. If someone comes up with a better system that works it could be interesting, until then we are stuck with supply and demand until further notice.

Phred Phillips asks the question, "How can teachers express their disapproval at government which does not involve striking". That for me is an easy one which you are not going to like or agree, just move on to their next job.

It will not solve any thing in the immediate future, because the whole scenario of jobs, wages and pensions especially in the public sector is, in my considered opinion, completely illogical and out of control and has got to be changed fundamentally.

Phred Phillips asks what I mean by the UK as a corporate body being in a, "failing culture", which I find a sad question.

Situations of even the teachers, a sophistic and educated group proposing to strike with all the punishment of their own people to get back at the government for their own vested interests and financial betterment. To me is just another indication of a failing culture in the UK.

This along with some able bodied young people and others shying away from work and having drug and alcohol dependency problems. Soap operas and the like dominating some people's lives is indicative of a failing culture that I personally find difficult to appreciate.

Until we as a corporate nation are prepared to accept that until we stop generally having a public sector and wage and pension fiasco which is indicative of the teaching industry and change over to the private sector then these problems will continue.

If blame can be apportioned for this problem then people like myself and of my generation who generally over the years could see what was happening and tried to alter the course, but unfortunately I personally did not try hard enough and the UK failure is clear to see.
.

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OK, galashiels, you've made your point .....but 3 times!!!!
Another case of a stuttering finger over the 'Submit' button....we've all be victims of it.
As I said in my posting of 23.42 - 13th...you are proposing to re-introduce the C18th Adam Smith's principle of supply and demand - an extreme form of Capitalism.
This was the main economic system of the Industrial C19th where workers were regarded nothing more than a commodity to be hired and fired. It was a type of industrial serfdom, were workers where the slaves of the industrialists. The old and the sick were the occupants of the local workhouse. You say the Supply & Demand system is generally world-wide - it may be evident in developing countries in Africa and the Indian sub-continent where workers work for a pittance and live in shanty towns; it is found in such market commodities as oil and gas, but it is not found in the basic mixed-economy regime of the post-Industrial Western World.
Remove collective responsibilities of the public sector, such as the NHS and local councils, entrepreneurial investment works on the principle of profit....attractive, profit-making enterprises will be taken over. Without external control, Adam Smith's capitalism can lead to powerful coglomerates to suffocate competition and to develop monopolies, thus dictating price and workers' wages.
The biggest life-saving health development over the last 150 years, has been within Public Health - anything from sewers to rat-catching to monitoring food outlets. How can the country respond quickly to the need of a massive vaccine programme with a range of dissipated profit-making companies? Similarly, how can the country respond to an outbreak of foot and mouth without public sector involvement?
If you wish to introduce such an elitist economic system, then may I suggest that workers will quickly realise that they collectively have the power and the country could quickly plunge into a neo-Marxism regime.......but with the demise of public health facilities, we could all be dead thro' the spread of cholera. small-pox and food-poisoning!

Sorry Phred Fillips for the number of times my post eventually printed out, my humble apologies, I will try and not let it happen again.

However Phred Fillips when attempting to submit my post the screen kept continually saying, "Error" and I assumed that my post had not been accepted and I just kept repeating which was obviously wrong as I found out.

I did think of trying to make contact with the site providers but did not know where to make contact. Can you advise me where to go to when this problem happens again ?

If it happens again I will just stop using this site which I will be sorry.

Kind regards and best wishes.

1200 jobs at Tata at risk.....this what happens with your Adam Smith's based Supply & Demand equation, galashiels..